Obama wants to make gay marriages legal in all states; he wants to make homeschooling illegal; and his voting record shows, he’s not a man to be trusted. Ron Paul was my man, but since he’s out I’ll be voting for Chuck Baldwin.

He supports abortions, even late term abortions. God doesn’t believe in gay marriage. CA has made homeschooling illegal. It was overturned, but has since been made illegal again. He supports that.

I respect your decision, but let me tell you why I am NOT an Obama Mama. My husband works for a small business owner who employs only six people. With Obama’s tax plan and the way most small business owners file their taxes, the small business owner would end up paying more taxes. Therefore, my husband’s job is in jeopardy because the owner will not be able to pay the taxes and everybody on his payroll.

And the abortion thing really gets to me. I don’t know where I stand on first trimester abortions. That I can see both sides of. But I do not support 2nd trimester abortions and I definitely don’t support 3rd trimester abortions. By the time you hit the 2nd and 3rd you should know whether or not you want an abortion. And babies survive abortions all the time. I can not support somebody that supports that.

May I ask why you like him?

Well said.

This Obama Mama agrees.

that last comment made it sound like I don’t look at other issues. haha. because I do. Some just tend to be more important than other.

Thank you Tiffany – I will need to share your post other mamas !!!

Michelle,

Obama is a casual associate of Ayers. They sat on a school related board together and no matter how hard the media tries they cannot show they were even friends. If I sat on the PTA with a former hippie bomber (who was never convicted) does that make me a terrorist? No. But regardless Ayers may be a very different man now. Who are we to judge?

Drilling is not green at all. Drilling was banned because of terrible oils spills in California. Instead of taking the stance that oil will fix our money situation we need a Prez who wants to use alternative energy and eventually break the oil strangehold with solar, wind, geothermal, bio fuels, etc.

McCain and Palin are in big oil’s pocket. Palin think global warming is not man made, she legalized ghastly aerial hunting, she wants polar bears to be killed when they get in the way of oil drilling, etc.

Also I don’t think I have ever run across a candidate I dislike more than Palin…don’t get me started on her. ;)

I think Palin’s abstinance only sex ed views are flawed and dangerous. I don’t think creationism should be taught in schools and in fact I am for less Christinity in the government…since that only represents a portion of our diverse country.

I disagree with her lack of envrionmental policy…the oil drilling, the hunting, taking polar bears off the endangered species list, raping the Bristol salmon run with a copper mine, etc.

She has also abused her power…firing a good man who wouldn’t fire her ex brother in law and then saying it was because he went on an unathorized trip when she herself signed off on the trip…so she is liar too. She also fired a librarian for not banning books that she felt were not Christian and only re-hired her after the public went nuts. She fired many of the staffers in her city and replaced them with her unqualified high school friends. Her best friend was given oversight over agriculture and a 90,000 a year paycheck and her only qualification was that she liked cows.

She sank her town into over 20 million dollars in debt and they had no debt previously. I think she is grossly unqualified to be Governor let alone VP or Prez.

So the right to life does begin at conception and end at birth? Why would the life of a child or adult in Iraq matter less than the unborn? I am confused on that one.

Hi Tiffany,
My 2 cents is : There are many many more people killed before birth in the US than there are people die in Iraq.
But apart from that, for every abortion that is performed there is a woman who is at risk of emotional pain. There is a higher incidence of suicide, drug and alcohol abuse in women who have had abortions, than in the general population.
I’m with Angela, Chuck’s my man, although I really like Sarah. But hey ho, I’m British so can’t vote anyway. lol.

I love it!! I wish I was a mama so I can say that I am an Obama Mama, but hopefully soon. I read all your insights on this post and I agree with you Tiffany. Way to stay strong and to stand up for what you believe in.

What a great conversation you started Tiffany! I have to add in my 2 cents too! While I think it is great to feel passionate about a particular issue like abortion…I hope that voters will remember that if we don’t take care of our Mother Earth first, we will not be around much longer to debate all of the other issues! I think a lot about the future of my 3 year old son and the rest of our children, our Earth is in trouble and we need a President that is ready to take charge and do something about Global Warming!
I am proud to be An Obama Mama!!

Oy, did you expect such diverse response? I’m new to your blog and enjoy it so I don’t know your readers yet or you that well :) Anyway, I’m also an Obama Momma!

I am McCainiac. I am pro-life and this is a big issue for me, but not the only one. Since someone brought up the war in Iraq with this issue, all I can say is that we have an all volunteer army. The difference between the unborn and those in the military is that the men and women in the military chose to join and serve their county, the unborn children have no voice as to what happens to them. We shouldn’t use the military as canon fodder, but it’s the military, not a social club. Their job is fight for our nation and for that we are indebted to them forever.

Also, my husband’s family owns a small business. I understand that it is tempting to say think that people who own businesses are obviously the rich and they should have to pay more because they make more. First, most small business owners are not rich, far from it. Secondly, I just don’t understand the thought process that says that in order to grow the economy we should take money from those people who can use it to actually create jobs. Give the average American a thousand dollars and they will go spend it. Give a rich business owner a tax break and he can use the money to create jobs.

Finally, I want someone willing to think outside of the box. McCain was thinking way outside of the box when he picked Sarah Palin. Obama went with the safe choice of Joe Biden. Now that we need our elected officials to work for us in Washington, McCain is putting his country’s needs above his own and has suspended his campaign. For Obama it is politics as usual. There are times when you have to put your own self interests second.

That is why I will be voting for McCain.

Yay, Tiffany and all the other Obama Mamas out there! I am one too. For the poster who said she felt more secure under McCain/Palin, I have to ask why? The Republican government over the last 8 years has completely misled the public about Al Qaida and Iraq. Please remember that Iraq had NOTHING to do with Al Qaida and the 9/11 bombings! Even Pres. Bush has since conceded that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and that the war in Iraq has only allowed Al Qaida to put down roots there during all the chaos. Why continue to trust Republicans when they have lied to the American people at such a great cost?

As for Palin, I’m curious what people find so “impressive” about her. I listened to her two measly interviews with Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric, and she just talked in circles and was vague and evasive. If the McCain campaign has such confidence in her, let her do a real press conference and field questions.

Amanda,
As Tiffany already stated NEITHER candidate will make abortion illegal. Your comment about the mother with 3 young children in the hospital is really uncalled for and is ridiculous! You as well as the readers of this blog know that would never happen!

Please go back and do research…this country was not founded on the seperation of church and state…it was founded with Christian principles. We did not just recently put In God We Trust on our money (as just one example).

Abstinence programs do work better than handing out contraceptives to high school kids. Sex Education can still be done but to liberals sex education is just handing out condoms! I have much more respect for Sarah Palin in the fact that they are dealing with things that many american families deal with…teen pregnancy. Also with her son Trig…she doesn’t just talk the talk, she walks the walk. 90% of down syndrome babies are aborted!

Your post does not creat positive energy at all! What kind of country would we live in if we all only thought of ourselves. We are already kind of there and I would like to see it go the other way.

Hi Sommer! Your thoughts mirror mine exactly. It’s funny when someone else can put your thoughts into words better than you can. lol. It’s so hard to form an educated opinion during this election. The media is so far gone with what they are printing it is VERY hard to find hard facts. I am still leaning toward McCain/Palin, but I will definitely take into account what everyone here has said and keep doing my own reading.

Hi Amanda! You seem very bitter towards those who believe differently than you do. Take Palin for instance, I don’t agree with her on everything, but it is refreshing to hear somebody say exactly what they believe and tell us exactly what they want to accomplish, not skirt around the issues. And I think your abortion example is a little off also. I don’t believe in abortion, but I would never tell anybody they can’t do something they want to do. The situation you described would be a hard one and there are a lot of conservatives out there who would sympathize with that mother. And now look at Obama, agree with him on some issues and disagree with him on others, but is he really ready do run the country? Big fat NO. He hasn’t really even done anything in the senate except run for president. I might be ready to vote for him in a few years when he has shown me that he can accomplish things. McCain has proven that. Even though I don’t agree with him on everything he will have a productive White House. As a conservative it is hard to read comments like yours. You want me to be ok with your beliefs, but you can trample on mine?

And Tiffany, thanks for the discussion! Your comments have been very helpful.

For whatever reason my last response didn’t come through. Maybe that was a good thing…I was responding to Amanda’s riduculous post and may not have been nice about it. :)

I agree with you Momma, on your response to Amanda…and I think you said it better than I did! :)

I agree that Obama has been very clear with what he wants to do but I also think it can’t be done without really taxing the daylights out of everyone. I just don’t believe him. But then again it’s hard to believe any politician. I do think that the true colors came out when McCain suspended his campaign to deal with this big economic mess we are in. It seems that when he says Country First, he means it.

Being a stay at home mom I don’t want my taxes raised…it is hard enough to make ends meet as it is. Unfortunately tax and spend doesn’t work. And Bush has been trying to pull out of the mess that Clinton left us for the last 8 years which has obviously been hard since our country is not so great off right now.

Just another of my 2 cents. (I suppose I am way above a $1 by now!) :)

Didn’t mean to get everyone in a tizzy! First of all, John McCain, when asked point blank if he would reverse Roe v. Wade said YES!!! I saw it with my own eyes and heard it! Each candidate has good points and bad points- of course they are out for their own agenda. Ideally, we should have several candidates to choose from, not just two. I am so passionate about politics because we call this a “free” country and it is not. I don’t mean to be bitter, I just want my children to grow up feeling that they can be who they want to be. I’m not “trampling” anyone’s beliefs. I am not trying to say that you should believe what I beleive! That’s the whole point of a free country! And by the way, I am NOT a Christian, although I respect Christianity and follow the golden rule, so I cannot support the “Christian” principles that the country was founded on. Sometimes we need to make harsh statements to open other’s eyes. But I respect everyone’s differences, but don’t force me follow them if I disagree and I don’t expect you to follow mine vice versa. Love and light to all- we all need it no matter what we believe.

I just hope whoever gets into office can clean up the mess we’re in. The messes I should say. :(

Wow! Wordless Wednesday turned up a wordy conversation all based on a photo (albeit, with words) ;-) Good discussion. As the years progress we have more and more topics relevant to our society and we need to decide where we stand on them. 100 years ago we didn’t have abortion or gay marriage, so the choices for candidates may have been more simple – either democrat or republican. It is not so simple today and unless you make a decision based on one issue you will rarely agree 100% with a candidate’s platform or their running mate. Unfortunately it has come to the lesser of the 2 evils. I wish Ron Paul was in there!

Amen sister! I’m right there with you Tiffany! I think we are sisters somehow in beliefs and in looks. If I sent you a pic of myself–it’s scary how much you and I look alike!

Thank you Tiffany for articulating my feelings as I could not.

Sommer, some of my favorite strictly non-partisan fact finding sights are: Congress.org, where you can sign up for a newsletter that tells you how your representatives voted on current issues, what issues are coming up, and makes emailing your reps regarding your opinion VERY easy. Another is votesmart.org, where you can look up candidates voting records based on issues.

It makes it so easy to skip all the spin and lies when you can find the actual sources in these non-partisan pages.

And for the record, I believe the right to life should last THROUGH life, not just including war and death penalty, but also the right to a healthy life… health care for that mother and baby, etc.

Awesome comment Cate…my fave so far. I agree with you totally. Abortion will never be outlawed because they need it as currency. This is why I think it the biggest mistake you can make is to choose a candidate based even the teeniest bit on abortion…it is being used as a diversion, to appeal to your sense of justice, meanwhile you ignore what the candidate is really about. It is nothing more than a ploy.

Michelle,

Sorry to offend but my proof is in the pudding. We just had a Republican President who played the same abortion card both times he was up for election. He did NOTHING to ban abortion or even make it easier to do so. I don’t think they ever will either…it is the leverage they hold over the head of their constituents. They know it is a hot button that they push and people dance for them. McCain is constantly bashed by his own side for being not very conservative. I seriously doubt he will appoint anti-abortion court justices.

About the books…yes that is what factcheck says but they are leaving out an important part….Palin did FIRE the librarian after their encounter and only when the town protested did she re-hire her. We have no proof she fired her for not being willing to ban books but I think it is pretty easy to see what happened IMO. If it wasn’t over books then why? Palin refused to share her reasons.

Evolution is science…creation is religion…it has no business being taught in a school that is suposed to honor a separation of church versus state. It is alarming that she would even consider such a thing.

Also as far as the checkbook online goes. Funny you mention that because this was Obama’s idea and in fact he passed legislation awhile back that started this process. Palin is being a copy cat of Obama there. Palin didn’t get her state out of debt….they had a windfall when gas prices rose. We all pay more at the pump and she skims money off the top to disperse to her state.

Cate, I have to say that after you first line about Michelle being “easily confused” I didn’t even want to read the rest of your comment. If you had read any of her comments you would know that she is a smart woman who does her research, she probably just slipped up as many of us tend to do. I am not for belittling people because they have a different belief on something.However I did read the rest of it because I figured I should give you a fair chance. You did make a good point about teens and sex. Most parents these days tend to not talk to their children about sex and leave it up to the public schools or somebody else. It’s important to teach abstinence and the importance of it and it is also important to teach about safe sex.

This next comment is for Tiffany and Cate. I think it is a little silly to say the creationism can’t be taught in schools. If we want to give our kids a well rounded education, we can’t just teach them about evolution. There are so many other THEORIES out there that the kids should know about. Yes, the theory of evolution should be taught. But creationism should be to. Creationism is not just about religion and it can be taught in a way that shows the history of creationism and the scientific proof that some events in the Bible have been proven to be true. If all we teach them is evolution how is that teaching them to be good critical thinkers? Shouldn’t we tell them everything out there and then let them debate which one sounds more realistic? There is a way to do it without bringing religion into it. I don’t personally believe everything about evolution, but I think it is important to teach kids that the theory is out there and why it is out there. Same with creationism or any other theory out there. Most of the people that I talk to that don’t want creationism in the schools mainly seem to be afraid of it and don’t seem to have a logical reason for not teaching it.

Oh, and please find some new news sources. HuffPo and Kos should be considered a waste of time, even for liberals. I don’t think you can claim to be serious about making a reasonable, informed choice if that’s where you get your info. It’s not even an attempt. It’s like claiming the same thing while getting all of your info from Michael Savage and Townhall.com.

You should start reading at RealClearPolitics.com. That way you’ll get to read Cynthia Tucker and Hugh Hewitt. Look at Drudge once in a while, at least.

There’s nothing really wrong with being a liberal. You should be comfortable saying,”I support Obama because he’s liberal.” Give it a shot. It might make you smile. There would certainly be less typing.

I wasn’t saying you aren’t free thinking because you’re liberal or because you disagree with me. I said it because some of the things you’ve repeated from others lack critical thought.

I’ll go backwards through your response:

If you’re reading both sides, that’s good. I still think Kos is crazy.

I didn’t suggest creationism should be taught. I just said that evolution should be taught as an unproven theory. As far as the evolution=science/creation=religion idea, I can see where you’re coming from. But philosophically pure naturalism/physicalism is a religion as well. We all have to choose whether we believe there is something more or if the physical is all that exists. The religious component of evolution is this: the idea that it will one day come together; that it is true, even while unproven, because there just can’t be a god. That’s religion. You’ll disagree, and I understand.

I’ve seen the widely circulated version of the Palin video, and it picks her up midsentence, changing the meaning of her statement. Here it is entirely, quoted from about 6 minutes into this video (the bold type is what was omitted in the most widely circulated video, and in the Gibson interview):

“Pray for our military. He [Track] is going to be deployed in September to Iraq. Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right for this country, that our leaders – our national leaders – are sending them out on a task that is from God. That’s what he have to make sure we are praying for: that there is a plan and that it is God’s plan.”

I assume you’re unfamiliar with what it means for a Christian to seek God’s will, but it means constantly being aware of the fact that your plans aren’t necessarily what God wants, and praying that you’re doing the right thing. It’s a little more than “hope”, but a lot less than a declaration of righteousness.

And I’m not parroting her response (notice that I didn’t reference Lincoln, or allude to ‘God’s side’ or ‘our side’), that was my own analysis. Beyond that, I disagree with a Christian who “would never presume to know God’s will…” That means you’re just not trying.

I wonder what the response would be if Obama used the same construction, but talked about withdrawal.

I know that Obama won’t end oil usage right away. But as our oil consumption grows – and it will – not drilling means even more money goes overseas.

I don’t begrudge McCain’s energy votes because we agree: He’s against subsidies, and so am I. He claims to have voted against it last time because of big oil subsidies that were included. I’m in favor of rewarding achievement, rather than subsidizing the whole project. That’s part of McCain’s plan.

As for having oil company string-pullers, if it’s true, they aren’t doing a very good job.

McCain may have 80 former lobbyists on his campaign, but why should it matter so much what they used to do? Are you prepared to call out Obama for being so closely tied to Jim Johnson, who made millions at Fannie Mae through fraud? What about the fact that he won his state senate seat by getting everyone else thrown off the ballot?

According to OpenSecrets, Dems have taken more than 3 times as much as Republicans in bundled contributions from lobbyists.

Taxes: There’s no stretching of credulity in what I said about Obama. As for Republicans not holding businesses to the same standard, in 06-07 Exxon paid $68 billion in taxes on $148 billion in income (46%), which is about the same as the bottom 50% of taxpayers paid, on around $2 trillion in income (~3.4%). Companies are paying a decent share.

And it’s misleading to imply that individuals are stuck with they’re taxes while companies get out of them. I’m in the 15% bracket, and last year I got a $4000 check. The same will happen next time as it does for quite a few people.

I’m glad you’re comfortable as a liberal Democrat. I hope saying it made you smile. My point with the voting records was that McCain is less beholden to his party than Obama.

I don’t equate liberal opinions with not being a free thinker. I know free thinking liberals. You usually fall into that category, which is why I’ve respected your opinion so much. But I’m conservative, so you’re right, I wouldn’t ever come around to someone so liberal.

The “regardless of little things called facts” line doesn’t fit. Facts don’t always point towards liberalism.

I’m still interested in what you have to say in response to my comments on Clinton, tax & spend, job security, ethics reform, Obama’s broken pledge to take public money, and the other points I made.

I have to say again that no one claimed we are in a holy war. What she was saying was something more than a hope, but far less than a declaration that God approves.

I never said that the oil would go to us. But if we drill it, we sell it. If the oil goes elsewhere – which is unlikely, considering the amount we consume – the money will stay here. What if China want’s to use oil to collect (I’m not sure why you put it in quotes)? I expect we’ll have to pay them somehow, someday regardless. If we give them every drop we drill, we can satisfy our debt without using our currently existing resources, and we’ll lower world demand on the open market, which will lower prices.

Progress toward alternative energy has been moving slow, since it started more than 100 years ago. We already knew about biodiesel and cellulosic ethanol. We need to get moving. Both candidates promise to see that we do.

You’re right, 80 former lobbyists is a lot. I’ll give you that. But one criminal on a campaign staff is a lot, too. Particularly when that criminal took $14 million off the books at FNMA.

I give Clinton credit for balancing the budget. But does his Republican congress deserve none? I also agree that health care is a huge issue. But is the single payer system really the best way to go? Canadians are coming here for treatment, instead of waiting for free care there. The world’s best doctors come to the US to practice, instead of staying home. There has to be something good about our system.

Unemployment was low during the Clinton era, but I don’t think we can attribute it 100% to liberal or Democratic policies. Just the same, both sides hold some blame in the present situation. Republicans for the ridiculous credit/bankruptcy “regulation” bill they passed a few years ago (with a vote from Joe Biden), and Democrats for refusing to fix Fannie and Freddie 2 years ago when they were presented with the likelihood that something like this would happen.

Republicans are right that the gov’t shouldn’t be involved in the market, and Democrats are right that executives from failed companies shouldn’t get bonuses or severance.

Businesses are out to make money, and not to care for their workers. That’s true, and it’s the way it should be. What you’ll find, as companies like FedEx, Microsoft, and Google have found, is that if you want to make money long term, you have to take care of your employees. That’s the only way to keep good, motivated, happy people working for you.

I think businesses should receive tax breaks for providing benefits to their employees, but not be penalized for choosing not to. Insurance is not something we’re entitled to, it’s not a right; it’s something that has to be paid for. I’m grateful that my employer provides it, but I don’t think he should be forced to.

Regulation has it’s benefits, but too much can slowly strangle an economy. Look at the E.U. By purchasing power, their economy is equivalent to ours. But they have a workforce that’s almost 50% larger (221M to 155M), and a population that is more than 60% larger (499M to 305M). Add to that the fact that their poverty rate is 4.6% higher, and you might be able to see what I’m saying. Less regulation here is part of the difference.

We do need protections though, like FMLA and to some extent the minimum wage act, and other things. But they shouldn’t hinder the market.

I mostly agree with you about ethics reform.

The pledge I’m talking about is when Obama pledged to use public money for the general election. McCain took the same pledge, and only one of them followed through.

Oy Charles you are wearing me out! My brain can’t handle it today, LOL.

I think most of this boils down to differences of opinion on a fundamental level…no sense arguing details. I will always side with 100% religious neutrality in government and schools to put everyone on the same field. Religion can and should be taught at home and issues like is gay marriage moral shouldn’t even be asked by our government IMO.

I believe in social justice and do not feel that big business can do whatever they want and take advantage of their workers. I believe that everyone does deserve to have healthcare and not because it is a right but because businesses and corporation have slowly poisoned us with toxic food, products, pharma drugs, vaccines, etc. They have normalized bad health and government let corporations do this to us unregulated…now I feel they owe us healthcare accompanied by regulation of toxics and true education about these issues. The dollar was put before the “rights” of the health of the people and now they need to make up for it. AND Obama’s plan is optional.

In light of what these businesses do and will do if they are given free reign I cannot support a free market.

I don’t know enough about Obama’s pledge to make a comment on it. But we certainly can’t trust a man who was a member of the Keating Five like McCain. Many people lost everything to that crook and as far as I can see we have one criminal in jail and one of the others is running for President.

Well, I would like to think it is 95% of the tax paying citizens…not 95% across the board but people walking away with more money than they paid in is not a new concept. I have worked in the tax industry. I favor a consumption tax too…more reliable than an income tax.

Good debate Charles it has been fun.

About the compnaies making us ill argument I made I wasn’t talking so much about obvious things like McDonalds. I was talking more about companies that put chemicals and other unnnatura studd in our food and porducts and aren’t required by government to disclose.

Like companies irradiating our veggies for example or companies putting BPA in baby bottles that leach into the drink. They don’t have to own up to these practices and yet I feel both are hazardous to us and make us unhealthy…hormones in our milk, pesticides on our food, antibiotics in our beef…I could go on and on. It is the stealthy stuff that they do that bothers me. Most consumers are not even aware of these issues and they work hard to keep it that way.

There is no way Obama can offer a tax break to 95% of Americans. 43% of American households DO NOT PAY TAXES, so this is not even possible. And when did Obama vote against the war? He was not a senator when that vote went through the Senate. He has socialist views and ideas. If you want the government to control you and your money, then Obama is your man. If you like your freedom and want to continue to make your own decisions for your family then McCain is your guy.

On healthcare, yes it would be great for everyone to have healthcare, but Obama’s plan just will not work. It costs money and where will that come from? The 57% of us Americans that DO pay taxes. Look at Canada, they have healthcare for all, yet there is a waiting list to see the doctor! Is that what you REALLY want?

Obama has 3 former Fannie Mae CEO’s as advisors to his campaign. McCain has pointed to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for the last several years saying their numbers do not add up.

And as for the war, sometimes war is a necessary evil. I hate war, but when diplomacy does not work (which it never does with terrorists), then further action must be taken. Even in the Bible there was war.

This is a very important election and I hope people will consider ALL views before voting, not just 1. Both candidates will offer change, but for me, I am not ready to be a socialist country, so I will NOT be voting for Obama.

Oh and one other thing. McCain’s healthcare plan while being completely stupid also fails to address a BIG problem that many face in this regard…they are uninsurable. Aka they cannot buy decent healthcare coverage even if they wanted to because they are or have been in the past chronically ill. Take me for instance…if I had to buy personal coverage I would not be able to find any that would not cost two arms and legs because I have had cancer. Obama’s plan would give me options when I otherwise have none…or do I deserve to have no healthcare????

hey Tiffany — I have to say that I watched the video and did not have the same reaction you did. She did not say that we “will go to hell if we don’t vote for her”. She read us a line off a starbucks cup. And clearly did it just to find out what would happen the next day. She even said that. You are obviously letting your own bias shine through instead of being objective. You need to see if for what is was. A joke. Not even a good joke, but a joke nonetheless. If she was being serious, then we may have something to worry about. But she obviously wasn’t.

Momma & Michelle,

It was a quote on a Starbucks cup …except the word was HELP women…not support. Ya know like help other women who are being battered at home and such. The woman who said that even stated it was not a political comment. Palin changed it to support and used it in refernce to voting a woman (herself) into office. So how exactly was she not insinuating that women won’t go to hell if they don’t vote for here. Even if it was a joke…which I don’t believe it was…how is going to hell funny????

Call me crazy but I don’t think it was funny in the least and shows a lack of class and incredibly bad taste. If Michelle Obama had said it I would equally disgusted…there is no call for that kind of garbage.

Well, honestly what Michelle said about America was not bad at all IMO. As someone that has suffered racial prejudice many us could never dream of I can’t chide her for not being particularly proud of America…but she later clarified what she meant. You can’t mince meanings with what Palin said. She insinuated that women should vote for her or possibly go to hell and she got the quote wrong. She took a slightly bizarre statement to begin with I admit, but made in a good context and turned twisted it to something gross for her own advantage.

As for Ohio…I don’t support what happened but are you really going to go there? Really??? The GOP stole the election from Al Gore…he WAS the president elect and had he challenged Bush would have been President. They also rigged voting machines in 2004 so that Kerry ended up getting negative votes (in Florida and Ohio)…this has been proven and documented and it is likely Kerry won that election too and it was stolen by the GOP. Being from Ohio I can attest to how many supported Kerry…he was robbed.

And for this election year the GOP is putting that lone politician in Ohio to shame. Cases in point:

Republicans sent out absentee applications to registered Democrats in SEVERAL states including Wisconsin with WRONG return addresses so that those voters will have their vote nullified or not counted….this only went to Democrats by the way and if it was an honest mistake…why did it happen 5-6 different times and why were they even sending anything to Democrats???

http://news.racinepost.com/2008/09/gop-absentee-ballot-mailings-called.html

And caught again in Florida. This is how Republicans steal elections. Now mispellings or mismatches can get your vote thrown out…even if the government is the one who mispelled your name or otherwise got in wrong in their database…but coincidentally only 10% of these glitches affect Republicans.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-novote0108oct01,0,6794080.story

And again….if you lost your house in the mortgage fiasco…the GOP says you can’t vote!!! The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is trying to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day. The voters affected are largely poor democrats and African Americans.

http://michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote

And AGAIN… the GOP tries to block people form voting early by not allowing them to vote at their local county clerks office and insisting that they drive over an hour to vote elsewhere if they want to vote early. And this is important because Dems are trying to avoid the cheating the GOP did in 2000 and 2004 by having early voting which the GOP is VERY opposed to.

http://progressillinois.com/2008/10/04/lake-county-voter-supression

So who is cheating here?????????????????

I forgot one:

The GOP has been targeting college students and telling them if they register to vote at addresses that are not their parents (which will usually be out of state) they will lose their funding. This is a total lie and they have done this in several sates including Colorado and New Mexico:

http://www.truthout.org/092508J

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/09/virginia-county-issues-chilling-voter-registration-report/

They know the younger voters will vote liberal.

Okay on to your points…about Gore. Why is it do you think that so many Dems HATE Al Gore??? Because he wouldn’t contest the election. Bush and the GOPers were saying he would throw the country into turmoil and cause harm so he caved and didn’t contest.. Look it up on Wikipedia…Gore had 543,816 more votes than Bush in Florida…the deciding state after a recount was done much later. Gore won.

I suggest you watch Stealing America: Vote by Vote. It highlights how they proved voter fraud. Gore got 16,022 negative votes counted on a Diebold tabulator in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000. How is it possible to get negative votes? It isn’t…unless someone rigged the machine.

Did you see this Simpsons clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aBaX9GPSaQ

It is hilarious and clearly shows what public opinion is of the GOP and voter fraud. They have been caught twice now doing this.

I think you are not seeing in the ID Match Law Stalls 5000 voter applications article that it could be a mispelled name or even the use of maiden name on one form of identification and not another, etc. It could also be the government’s mistake. Why are only 10% of those affected Republicans? How do you explain that?

In Michigan you don’t seem to realize that forclusures take MONTHS. Those people may very well still be living in those houses, they may have worked out a temporary deal with their mortgage, they may be contesting in court…there are numerous reasons why a bank forclosure list should NOT be used to determine residency. I know a man in Ohio who lived in his forclosed house for over a year after it was forclosed upon. Should they get to vote or not? I say yes.

And the GOP did not choose to do this in all counties…only a couple counties filled with registered Dems and African Americans. Why didn’t they choose counties with high Republican bases or a high number of whites?? I think we know why.

I don’t think either party should be trying to block voters but the GOP has Dems beat hands down on that dirty practice and has for YEARS and I find it rather ironic that they call themselves the God Party when they cheat so much.

Thx momma for sharing the other side. I admit I am not tolerant of people using religion to impose their views on other people….even in jest. I lived that life for too long, LOL.

Patricia,

That video propoganda. We have no reason to think he is hiding anything. The GOP of course wants to feed into fear because he has a funny sounding name and perhaps they don’t like a few of his past associates. McCain has just as many radical and or criminal associates tit for tat. McCain has over the years shown he has a strong trend toward racism. That is the last thing we need in the White House and that scares me more than Obama’s funny name.

Michelle,

Nothing on that video concerns me. Absolutely nothing….I think it is pure scare tactic for people to be highlighting these things. BOTH candidates are big government….I think McCain is more so. And as for bad associates of McCain….wow…take your pick…there are MANY. If you want that information I am sure you can find it very easily. And he has 89 big government lobbyists in his campaign. Who do think he will take care of after election….us or them?

Just look at the latest GOP trick discovered over the weekend, GOP volunteers were being told to tell people that Obama is just like Osama Bin Laden. They are actually telling people Obama is like the guy who killed 3000 Americans in a bombing????

But Obama does not want universal healthcare to be mandated he wants a governemnt OPTION….it is 100% optional for people. Also most other developed countries do have government healthcare and they seem to be pretty darn happy with it. In Canada they don’t require vaccines but yet they have universal healthcare. You bring up a good point but it is a big MAYBE.

I like this link about Ayers: http://momocrats.typepad.com/momocrats/2008/10/opponents-assoc.html#more

It shows how the people that know him…really like him…Republicans and Democrats. And no I don’t think you will turn out just like the people you hang with. Most of my extended family were racists…they hated black people….but yet I grew up and dated one and could have married him. Their bad attitude did not effect me in the least…people know right from wrong. With kids the lines can get blurred but adults know better.

I don’t think Obama wants to blow our country up, I really don’t….however McCain hanging out with 9 lobbyists shows me he is loyal to corporate American not me and not you…that worries me far more than Obama. being an associate of a mild mannered school teach.

This is exhausting though isn’t it….I think I am skipping the debate tomorrow cause I am just getting tired of it. LOL.

Cate,

I listened to the Rush clip, and I have to say that I don’t think he’s that far off. As a child I was “influenced” to dislike America (and “America” was usually synonymous with “white people”). My mom made sure I knew in 3rd grade that I didn’t have to put my hand over my heart during the national anthem or say the pledge of allegiance. Telling a nine-year-old something like that is the same as telling them not to do it.

My parents weren’t and aren’t the militant sort. They were early black yuppies, graduating college before the civil rights movement. They were people who wanted all the trappings of the middle class, without actually wanting to be such (because it was also synonymous with “white people”.) I grew up in white neighborhoods in Pittsburgh and Dallas, and in both places my parents would talk occasionally with our neighbors, but drive 30 or 40 minutes to hang out with a black family.

Rush may have stumbled into hyperbole when he said “hate, hate, hate…”, but many, if not most of us, were raised to have a strong distaste for whites and the country.

As the father of a biracial child, I worry a bit about what other kids will be like with him, but I don’t need “hope on what [he] can become.” This is America, he can become anything – or nothing.

Stop using chain emails as targets…not even conservatives buy them. Though I have passed one or two to liberal friends to annoy them… And by the same token, the only people tossing this “funny name” business around are Obama and people who repeat his sound bites. Sure the Sacramento Republican Party did something stupid and repulsive (and not even a little bit funny), but they got pressure from every other person in the party.

Tiffany,

Using Obama’s health care may be optional, but paying for it won’t be. Also, will doctors be required to accept the state insurance? If not, the good ones will opt out, because the billing limits will be ridiculously low, and the hassle, as with all government programs, will be large. The patients will be stuck with lesser qualified practitioners who need the work, and a few who have a heart for the needy (I’m not an optimist when it comes to the number of doctors who really care – please don’t try to convince me with an anecdote). I guess any doctor is better than no doctor, though.

The real question is where does the money come from? Sen. Obama has yet to say what programs he would cut or scale back, except to say “we can’t do everything right away.”

We already pay for some people’s healthcare. Kids and old folks, people who aren’t capable of caring for themselves are quite a bit different from this. This has the potential to be everyone’s healthcare.

Plenty of doctors opt out of those programs. My son was on Medicaid until recently, and the doctor assigned to us (no, we did not get to choose) was awful, we actually paid out of pocket to see another doctor, until we could find a decent one who would take Medicaid and then had to wait for the switch to be approved. I think Obama said you’d be able to keep your doctor, but what if your doctor decides not to accept the insurance? Will the gov’t decide to make it mandatory after a few years?

I’m not surprised by Obama not saying what he’ll cut either. I am surprised by your take on the logic, though…do you think he’s keeping quiet so as not to ruffle the feathers of those “special interest” groups he’s so against? That doesn’t sound like the Obama you’ve been raving about.

That Obama would tell those guys why they deserve to lose those payments, and that they should vote for him anyway. I have to admit, I gained some respect for him the other day for saying directly to Joe the Plumber that he plans to raise taxes and that he thinks it’s the right thing to do.

And don’t the people deserve to know what policies they can expect from the person they vote for? Shouldn’t researchers know before they vote that he might cut funding in their field? Shouldn’t business owners and organizations know if he’s planning to cut some of the support that they receive?

John McCain went to Iowa, stood next to state officials, and said that he opposes ethanol subsidies. He went to Wisconsin and told them he opposes agricultural subsidies. That may be costing him right now, but those voters know where he stands.

I’m not always sure where Obama stands. A few weeks ago, he said that something needed to be done about the economic situation, people were losing their houses, and people were (in danger of) losing their jobs. Three things we already knew. He didn’t say what he thought should be done, only that, despite the urgency of his statements, it wasn’t important enough for him to get involved (“Call me if you need me.”) Sure, it was said that he was merely dealing with two issues at once, but how could he deal with an issue that required intense negotiations, without going to the negotiating table? These two still have jobs in the legislature, so when something major comes along, I think it’s better if they show up for work.

I went off the rails there somewhere, nonetheless, the healthcare plan will deteriorate quickly into the same state as every other assistance program – broken.

Thanks Michelle, but as a military man I seriously doubt McCain is against vaccination. The military is VERY pro-vaccination. I think McCain is just saying what people want to hear…aka personal choice. This election has already shown a great amount of dishonesty on his part.

I applaud Obama’s for being candid…even if it wasn’t what people want to hear. This would not be a big enough issue to sway my vote and can’t in matter of fact because I already voted.