Many mom bloggers try to stay away from politics and religion but hey I can’t hide that I am deeply political and not so very religious. So yeah… I am going there. I don’t mind the cliche that since I am liberal I must also be Godless… it happens to be true. I do mind the fact that many have so many perceived ideas about what that means though. I can confidently say I can go toe to toe with any mom of faith in the values, ethics, and morality department. Traditional values, ethics, and morality I mean. Its all subjective… and I have no judgment for people who make their own rules.
I grew up in a heavily religious household… I was a preacher’s daughter. It was ingrained pretty early that God’s people are “good” people and other people are somehow inferior. In fact, in the church I went to, we were not even allowed to associate with people who were not of our faith. It was this that ultimately led me to start questioning things. I got out in the great big world and saw that there were lots of really GOOD non-Christian people. They were every bit as good and honorable as anyone I had ever met who professed to serve God. In fact, truth be told, lots of them seemed more honorable than those I grew up who professed to serve God. It was the crack that caused the whole thing to crumble.
Update: A few hours after I first published this post I got an email from a reader saying they wouldn’t be reading anymore because they “can’t read the blog of a Godless person.” I would be willing to wager they meant non-Christian. No matter how long they were a reader or what they may have gleaned from this blog in the past, somehow finding out I am not Christian makes me unworthy. She made my point for me.
Now I struggle with what to teach my kids about religion, faith, God, etc. Obviously I cannot teach them as fact, what I no longer believe. I have accepted that I am agnostic. I have also accepted that I will always be somewhat fascinated and bewitched by religious belief and rituals, especially orthodox sects. Personally I would REALLY like to take some Buddhism intro and meditation classes… but my husband’s schedule is not constant enough to allow for it. I am also fascinated by the beliefs of Orthodox Jews and the Amish. Growing up I was not permitted to explore other faiths.
My kids need to make their own decision about all of this. Whereas a deeply religious family “might” be intolerant of other belief systems being taught I want my kids to be free thinkers. Intolerant may be to strong a word since this is often viewed as protective rather than prohibitive but… ultimately I want to try and expose them to a variety of different ideas and let them use their own free will to decide what is best for them.
This is why my daughter attended a Christian school last year. Yes, it was hard to have her come home and ask us to pray at the dinner table or to hear her talk about Jesus so much. But then I relaxed and realized this is her journey. When my youngest goes to pre-school I want his first year to be at a Christian school too. And as a family we can explore Buddhism, Islam, Wicca, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. We need this Kids Book of World Religions I think.
It would be rather fun to send them to a different religious school each year but that might make it hard to develop friendships. And public schools in big inner cities are excellent for racial and religious diversity anyway. My kids are already interested in learning about Islam since so many children that attend their school are Muslim.
And of course the concept of spirituality without religion can be taught. That being the path toward a higher state of awareness, wisdom, or communion with the world and beings around you.
This past year I met a local man who insisted that Christianity is the basis of all that is good and virtuous in this world and that raising caring, ethical children could not happen without this indoctrination. I disagree. Even seeing how my kids are coming to love their planet shows me that he is wrong.
I just ordered Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief. It supposedly has over 100 activities for both parents and their children. This book covers every important topic nonreligious parents need to know to help their children with their own moral and intellectual development, including advice on religious-extended-family issues, death and life, secular celebrations, wondering and questioning, and more. Sounds like a good book. I am interested to find out what it says about celebrations cause I have a really hard time with Christmas… my oldest didn’t even know what Christmas was until he was 5 or 6 because I just wanted no part of it. Same with Easter. I still feel really uncomfortable with those two holidays and my husband pretty much detests the idea of celebrating them.
So what about you? How have you chosen to address the spiritual and/or religious path for your own children? Can children who are raised to learn only one faith be free thinkers?
Before I could teach my children about faith, I had to have my own faith. My parents chose to avoid all issues of faith and I wasn’t served well by that approach. I had some belief and an innate awareness of good and evil, but didn’t make the effort the truly learn and form an opinion until my children were in their teens and pre-teens. My parenting would’ve been better, more peaceful, more effective if I had done so earlier. I did the work, prayed for wisdom, and found that “religion” is a man made thing; it’s “jumping through hoops” and I wasn’t interested in just being a “good person”. I found that true faith is based on knowledge, truth, and selflessness. Please check out Lee Stobel’s :”A Case for Faith”. Beware of spirituality without belief or faith. It’s an empty concept that always get filled with something. I’ve seen so many teenagers filling that void with things that no parent would ever choose for thier children.
Thanks for the book recommendation Yvonne. I have read that one, the Case for Christ as well. I think I still have the latter one on DVD somewhere too.
I loved reading this post and am so happy that you were strong enough to post your views, even though some people may be offended. My views are very similar to yours but most of the blogs I read are created by very religious people. I subscribe to a lot of blogs that are created by homeschooling moms b/c they have awesome preschool activities but they also blog a lot about God. I have no issues with this b/c I am a free thinker and have no problem with other people proclaiming their faith.
My parents were very hypocritical and that is what led me to question things. They would go to church b/c it was what you were supposed to do and yet they did not always act “christian like.”
Currently, my thoughts are that if by believing in God, which ever God that is, makes you a truly better person b/c you think it will get you into heaven, go for it. That is if you really are a good person, b/c we all know we need more of those. But, don’t just go to church and say you believe in God b/c it is what society tells you to.
I want my children to be exposed to all religions and to be open minded enough to be accepting of all. I want them to be good people, not to get into heaven, but just b/c it is the right thing to do.
Wow, how much did I struggle with similar issues too. I grew up in a strict church where ‘questioning’ wasn’t allowed. Once I ‘grew up’ and started to examine people, religions, church etc for myself did I discover things about myself and answers to my questions. I still go to church (different denomination though) and encourage my children to question things and to explore for themselves, although still teaching them what we believe.
Another book that I enjoyed (kids would too) is Usborne’s World Religion book – I can’t remember the title exactly. It was amazingly informative and had some great pictures etc too.
my children are being raised and schooled in a catholic way. and i might add love and thrive on it. my husband and i come from the same church and it makes it so natural and easy to do this, it’s such a blessing. so sad that you were taught that all others were so low. what a shame and obviously bad impression. good for you that you are still open while still teaching something though. personally those who say ‘im going to let my children decide for themselves’ and then give them nothing is sad to me. my children are raised to be free thinkers on a whole. to make good decisions and do their best and if someday they choose to do so this while following a different religion than theyve been brought up with i couldnt disagree.
I agree with you that there are PLENTY of honestly good non-Christian people out there. As a follower of Christ, I am always frustrated when people who claim to be Christians turn it into a religion of morality. Doing good things and being ethical should be by-products of Christianity because there is a heart change. NOT because you have to do xyz to be a “real” Christian. I was also a Pastor’s kid and from what you have written, it sounds like my folks approached it slightly differently than yours. That may have made all the difference for me. I was brought to church because it’s what we did as a family, not because I had to be a Christian. And when I asked questions, my parents said, well this is what WE believe, but you should read the Bible and see if you want to believe it too, etc. I strongly agree that religion shouldn’t be forced, Really, it can’t be, as you now know. I think it’s great that you are wanting your kids to decide for themselves. The hard part for you may be if they DO choose to follow Jesus, but I think if that truly happens, you will find yourself proud of them having made their own choice.
You bring up a very good point that Charlotte Mason makes very well. As a fiercely Christian mom, I do NOT want to make the mistake of telling my children that only Christians are moral people. How confusing it would be for them to grow up and then come into contact with all kinds of people of strong moral fiber that do amazingly good things and give hugely of themselves!!! (((((HUGS))))) sandi~sorry, I’m just not scared away from learning from your wonderful ideas and blog! ~smile~
Thanks much Sandi, that means alot. :)
You bring up a very good point that Charlotte Mason makes very well. As a fiercely Christian mom, I do NOT want to make the mistake of telling my children that only Christians are moral people. How confusing it would be for them to grow up and then come into contact with all kinds of people of strong moral fiber that do amazingly good things and give hugely of themselves!!! (((((HUGS))))) sandi~sorry, I’m just not scared away from learning from your wonderful ideas and blog! ~smile~
Hello Tiffany,
Thank you for this post. I can really relate to what you are saying. I too come from a very religious family (Roman Catholic, so father not a Pastor, but I do have an uncle who’s a monk). I was raised having to believe, there wasn’t any possible alternative and even heard my father tell me if he knew he would have a daughter like me he would never have gotten married after I questioned god out load in my teenager years.
I can’t say I was ever a believer, at least not that I can remember. I’d go to Sunday school and mass purely out of obligation. I did have a religious wedding (and feel like a hypocrite for it) because of fear of my parents. My husband doesn’t believe either.
Now that we’ve just had our first child, we’ve chosen not to baptize our son, which is an absolute first in my family. This has brought back a lot of negativity and I still haven’t managed to tell my father.
I was wondering how you dealt with family in this sense.
I don’t mind if my son grows up to be Catholic (or any other religion), I just don’t feel like I can keep up the hypocrisy. I too want him to be a free thinker and decide for himself, albeit with a strong, ethical upbringing. Thank you so much for these suggestions!
thank you so much for the book recommendations. my husband was raised catholic and i was raised methodist and we are, if anything, agnostic now. there are times when i almost wish i had the answers that organized religion has to give children. it’s all laid out. my soul and mind just don’t prescribe to one and only one answer to those questions. i’ve been very honest with my kids about the way we feel but their questions are getting more complex and i’ve already ordered the books you mentioned. i can’t wait to read them. thank you so much!
Tiffany,
I have read your blog for quite some time but this is my first time to comment. Thank you for such a great post!!!! I share many of your same thoughts on this topic. I live in the heart of the Bible Belt so it is very hard for me to find people in my area with the same views. It is amazing how many close-minded people are out there….so scary! Keep up the great work!!!!
I was raised roman catholic and my parents were very involved in the church we went to. The priest there hated my father (because my dad caught him looking up the skirts of the ladies going up into the choir loft) and would accuse me of doing all sorts of sinful things ie: skipping church, messing up the restrooms during ccd, etc. Even though they were so involved in the church, they never really forced any of it on us. In fact, after receiving confirmation, I stopped going to church all together for a while because I didn’t want to deal with that priest. They weren’t surprised, and never tried to ‘guilt’ me into going. My hubby was raised with no religion whatsoever, so he doesn’t understand how people can ‘blindly believe’. That being said; he loves going to midnight mass and that is the only time he steps foot inside the church. But we are raising my son catholic, and I have already decided that once he received confirmation (in 2 years), he can decide to continue going to church or not. (that way, if he marries a catholic girl, there wont be an issue getting married.) I married hubby in an episcopalian church because I didn’t want him to go through the mess of trying to marry in the church I grew up in. No one in my family cares that my hubby has no religion, because he is a good man. A good person makes a good person, regardless of what God they believe in.
I personally grew up in a southern baptist family (though our church wasn’t the orthodox baptist a lot think of) and my husband’s father is french catholic. I didn’t have any real issues with church as really it was a craft day for me as a kid, with cookies and the notorious ‘orange drink’. For my husband, the few times his father tried to get him to go to church was horrible.
My husband is an athiest. However, he is also one of the most learned people about religion I know. I was raised in a christian home and yet he is the one who has read the bible the whole way through.
We have been talking about this as we are currently expecting our first child. We plan to raise our son without religion. However, we want to expose him to the thought processes behind other’s beliefs. We want to lay out the good and the bad for him to see so he can make educated decisions.
The morality issue is a very strange one to me as it is something I’ve heard often. “If you don’t believe in a god, what keeps you from doing wrong?” That is a very sad way to think, imo. I am a good person because I believe that is what life is about. Helping and loving others. I do this because it is what I feel in my heart is right, not because I am afraid of some ultimate discipline. I have known quite a few religious people who are great people, but there are quite a few others who are not so good.
Bottom line is I think it is important that people learn for themselves, not only their children, about the facets of religions around the world so they can make an educated decision on what they believe. They should extend this learning onto their children so that they can also make good decisions about what to believe. This philosophy can extend from religion to advertising, imo.
As for the Christmas and Easter thing. We celebrate because we love the time of year, we love our families despite our differences. I don’t believe it needs to be extravagant, but it is a time of year to let your family know you love them and appreciate them. That is how we look at it at least :)
Meg I agree. Thinking that people cannot be good people without believing in God is like thinking your kids cannot be good people or behave when they are away from you. It is very sad.
I forgot to answer the holiday part!
We celebrate both Easter and Christmas. They are actually my favorite holidays. But; I don’t go overboard decorating or gift-giving. My I-L’s do. every square inch of their house has to be decorated and there should be loads of gifts under the tree. My family is more reserved, we decorate and remember the reason for the holiday, but it’s certainly not commercial. I think that is why hubby enjoys midnight mass…it’s just him and peace, nothing else gets in the way.
My mother has said to us adult children many times “You have to take your own hide to market”. My parents gave us a christian foundation to build our lives on as adults. They do not, however, judge my bother who doesn’t practice any religion or my sister who is in a same sex relationship. My sibling are both wonderful, loving, “good people”. Even though they may not follow the path my parents would choose for them.
I hope my children radiate tolerance and love towards all people. I want them to be well adjusted and comfortable with who they are and who they think they want to become. I am Lutheran and my children attend church with me when I am able to make it Sundays. It is important to me to share my beliefs with my boys. (Which are taught, not only in church, but in every day life.) I also would welcome anyone to come and worship. It is great to share with anyone willing to listen about the love of Christ.
At the end of the day, YOU have to be comfortable with who are and what you believe in… (and IMO in the end of the end you and you alone are responsible for your own self and your own peace.)
I really liked your post, too, and agree with you! The many things you mentioned leads me to suggest looking into Unitarian Universalism, if you want a religion or church. The religion is all about free thinking. I was raised catholic but now my husband and I go to a UU church and love it. The Religious Education program for kids does include a curriculum for world religions – they can learn about many other religions. Granted, it’s not the same as going to a specific school, but it does give a good idea. Just wanted to give you that idea.
I am totally with you on this one. Thanks for the book recommendation also, I really need to get that for my daughter, since she is 11 now, and she’s questioned things in the past and I’ve told her as well that she can choose what to believe, but I never went into detail about my own beliefs. I guess I can say I am somewhere within the agnostic/atheist area. But a lot of the beliefs and practices I have also fall into the Pagan category. I am also trying to find a way to tell my daughter this, because of course, the mainstream around us does believe in the bible and all that, so I’d sound probably quite odd to her. I also let her go to her friend’s churches with them, so she’s gotten some diversity there. And on the holidays you were speaking about, me being of no religion at all, I still love Christmas and Easter and all that. I celebrate it as more of bringing on the winter and the spring seasons. We don’t get too commercial, but we do the gifts and Santa and Easter bunny, etc. At Christmas I love how we can remind our kids of how important it is to give and be with those that you love. And that gifts aren’t only important bought from the store. It creates so many wonderful, warm memories. We do a lot of crafts for spring and winter on those holidays, and we just celebrate the changes of the earth at those times. Enjoying the cold winter with hot cocoa and fireplaces, spring with being outdoors at the parks and just exploring nature. I love it and am very glad those holidays were created, even thought I suppose the original intent was for religion. :) Thanks for sharing this post and especially the book. I will pick one up.
My husband and I are very much NOT religious, though we were both from home of faith. I applaud you for being open and honest about this issue, and I can say that I WILL be reading your blog because of this post. As secular homeschoolers, we teach our children science and fact, and I refer to all religion as mere superstition.
Kudos to you!
I was very afraid to post about it too. Glad I did it anyway.
Your story resonates on a personal level with me. My heart goes out to you as you find your clarity and peace with this part of your journey. It was difficult, at best, sorting out my “beliefs” while raising my three children. I struggled for years to release some of the negative impact that my personal interpretation of religion had had upon my life. I was full of guilt and shame that’s for sure.
But as I continued on my path, I came to fully appreciate that we all live how we believe. And wouldn’t you know it, our beliefs change and evolve with us. So pinning a specific belief down to one thing or another seemed a bit tough on my heart and mind. Instead, I’ve adopted a personal policy to greet everyone and everything openly. I take what resonates with me and leave the rest. I’ve come to enjoy the different religions and traditions that my friends and family honor. I can always find something that feels good about it. I look for a connection. I view each as part of our fabric of life.
My journey helped me to embrace that I am a part of something…I no longer need to name it…Mother Earth, nature, God, Allah. It doesn’t matter to me. I know deep down that I belong and that by being me I am doing my part. I know that we are so much more than the surface of our lives. Like an iceberg…what lies below the surface is what really matters…it’s were our power and strength come from. It exists whether we’re aware of it or not. Does it really matter the “name” we put on our life force? Is it enough to simply share that we are part of something?
Ultimately, what I hope I taught my children is to be their best self, to honor life by being their most authentic expression…to live their life from the center of their being.
Blessings to you on your journey.
Shelly
I’d like to ask the Christian man you met if he thinks that the majority of people in the world are NOT good or virtuous, as the majority of the world’s people are not Christian.
We’ve been celebrating Xmas with an emphasis on family time and mid-winter cheer, not on religion or presents. People have been celebrating at that time of year for thousands of years… since long before Christ.
Easter we just don’t do… at least not yet. Our daughter is allergic to milk and eggs, so there’s not much left but religion at Easter.
Things might get confusing when she starts school, but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I was raised for the most part without religion (and DEFINITELY without spirituality) and it didn’t cause problems for me.
Great post. lean towards spirituality and am not religious. I was open wih my daughter and she leans towards Christianity because her friends are Christian and it feels comfortable for her. She is 20 and is quite liberal.
As far as education goes, I say expose them to the world as well as the different religions. The Unitarian Universalist churches have Sunday school classes that do just that, they explore the worlds religions with respect and without pushing in any direction. “Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that draws wisdom and inspiration from many sources. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and with other religious or philosophical traditions.”
Amen sister…this makes me want to read you blog more! :)
I have found as I have become more indepenent in my faith that oftentimes, non-believers use the excuse of “hipocrites” in the church as a reason not to participate or believe. I know that my life is a constant struggle of right and wrong decsions, sure I have made mistakes, we are all human, christian or not. Sure there are lots of great people that are non-christians. But good vs. bad is not the real issue, you can go through your entire life and be a ” good person” but where is it going to get you? We are all mortal and what it boils down to is where will you spend eternity, or do you believe it is all over after you take you last breath on earth? Maybe I will end up wrong in the long run, but I am going to live my life for Christ, I rather take the chance of being wrong than find out the hard way. I am greatful to my parents for sharing their beliefs with me from a young age. I have studied many other religions through cultural anthropology classes and geography and I feel that I am a free thinker. And what I have come to know as the truth is that Christianity is very different than other religions, there is a Savior, only one way to eternal life. I know that Jesus died for our sins and that I will serve Him and seek His will for my life. I will also share these thoughts with my children, it is by God’s grace they are here and I pray that they do not have to live a day without Him. I cannot imagine going through the hard parts of life without knowing God has a plan and purpose for me.
Sarah, that kind of speaks to what I was saying. You ask essentially what good it does us to be good people if it will do us no good in the long run. So, good people will be punished in hell. Frankly that is an absolute horror to contemplate. If God made me in his image then why does that bother my sense of justice on so many levels. The very ideas of right and wrong are thrown out the window to allow for this belief IMO. I mean I could be a killer and still get into heaven but a good person who who never harms a fly but also never accepted Christ… hellbound. A “father” would not do this to his children. That is my belief.
Thanks for posting this. I always try to stay away from politics and religion. I just hate ruffling feathers. I was raised in a Lutheran house. Some of my best childhood memories come from times with my friends at church or away at camp.
I hope to keep religion open in our house. We are attempting to raise our children spiritually but we do not regard our spiritual beliefs and practices as a “religion” in the way in which many Christians do. Our beliefs and practices form a integral and seamless part of our very being. Treating the earth and people with respect. Taking care of ourselves. Etc.
We let Grandma take them to church if they want and answer any question they have the best we can.
I do not want my children to judge people based on what others believe and I hope the same is reflected back to them. I do not understand how people can shut off someone else just because their beliefs don’t align.
Thanks for the book recommendations. I will have to check them out
Very nice post. You should feel comfortable and put whatever you want on your blog.
A good friend of mine has “church” with her family at home on Sunday mornings. They meet and catch up with each other and then study the religions. It keeps spirituality of a kind while teaching the different view points and philosophies. We are planning to do this as ds gets older.
Remember that the majority of your christian holidays began for very different reasons and christianity just kind of took them over. The christmas tree has nothing to do with Jesus nor do the lights. The easter bunny or eggs or candy have nothing to do with Jesus either. You can still enjoy the different days by looking into them and choosing which story feels right to you.
You also have to remember that good religious people have to believe that anyone who does not believe in their god, regardless of what type of person they are, are going to hell. Otherwise they start to realize the ridiculousness of that theory, which means they are questioning their religion, their faith, and that sends them to hell.
Thank you for this post. I’m non-religious (raised Congregational) and pregnant with my first child. I feel very strongly that I don’t believe in any god but still celebrate traditional holidays with my family. It’s been easy to keep quiet about my own beliefs, but I know when the baby’s born my and my husband’s religious relatives will ask why we’re not baptizing the baby, etc. I worry that they’ll think we’re immoral, etc. I’ve found religious folks to be very intolerant of my lack of belief. It’s frustrating, since I’m not judgemental or intolerant of them.
I know how you feel, we weren’t planning on having our son blessed, but our family made us feel like we were doing him a huge disservice, as if we didnt he would suffer, it was an intense amount of pressure for such a small thing. In the end we let my dad do it and it was kinda fun, he looked so cute in his little white tux. Anyway, good luck, I feel your frusteration!
I too was raised a PK (priest’s kid) In my case it was my Mom who also happens to be a lesbian. Though the church I grew up in tends to be very open to thought and questions ( Episcopal) and anyone is welcome, I still did not feel like I belonged. I grew tired of pretending so I stopped going and spent many years believing in nothing. Now I have two kids and I felt the draw to provide that sense of community for them, so I started going on occasion to the Unitarian Universalist church. I love that it is open to all faiths Christian and otherwise and that it offers a chance to come together and learn from each other in love. The youth group actually spends many of their Sundays traveling to area places of worship to attend and experience them first hand, both Christian and not. They have such an emphasis on love and acceptance there. It is really interesting to be in the same room with so many differing thought processes and beliefs all getting along!
My aunts are both unitarian universalists as well and love love love it!
The woman who sent you the “I won’t read you anymore” email was clearly terrified at the prospect that you might cause her to think. It’s sad how closed-minded and bigoted some people seem to be. Good riddance to her.
ROFL… good one. ;)
Thanks for this post. My husband and I don’t have kids yet, but this is something we’ve talked about a little. We both grew up Protestant – him Methodist, me Baptist (but not like the Baptists giving all the rest a bad name) – but are agnostic now. We’ve talked about how to raise thoughtful, moral, open to religion kids…without church. Thanks for the book recommendation, I will definitely check out Freethinkers.
(And, I’m so disappointed to hear about the e-mail from the new non-reader. How sad that she hasn’t yet learned the lesson about not needing to be a member of a church to have morals and decent values.)
What a great post! I share many of your beliefs with you and I am also agnostic. My husband is buddhist. With regard to religion, we have decided to teach our son about different religions. Then when he is an adult, he can hopefully make an educated decision as to what he wants to do regarding religion.
We also work very hard to teach him about the importance of showing compassion to all beings. I did not go to church growing up and my dad has always said you can be a good person without attending a church service every Sunday. My husband’s father is a retired preacher and his family worries all the time about him being a Buddhist.
I like the books you mentioned and will look forward to hearing more about them after you get to take a look at them. I also wanted to share 2 books I bought for my son that talk about different religions. One of the books (first one listed below) has the last line of:
“All their great tachers have taught the same lesson: Love and care for on another and for our beautiful earth.”
The books are:
Many Ways by Rotner and Kelly AND
The Mouse & the Buddha by Kathryn Price.
If you are raising your children like this, I would recommend checking out these two books.
Thanks a bunch for the book recommendations. I added them to my wishlist.
My beliefs aren’t too different from yours, I suspect. I’m much more spiritual than religious, despite being raised Roman Catholic. My husband is Catholic as well, and that’s how we’re raising our kids. Still don’t have the youngest baptized yet, though, as we had to move recently and we still aren’t established in the local church.
But we do let our kids know about other religions. My husband gets a bit antsy whenever our oldest says something that doesn’t quite go with the Catholic faith, but I prefer to take it all in stride. I expect my kids to make up their own minds about faith in the long run.
I’ve always considered the notion that a Christian faith is the only way to be a good person to be an absurd one. There’s nothing in that or any other faith that creates a good person. Most adherents will be good people, yes, but the same can be said for people in general.
We of course celebrate Christmas and Easter. I had to do some work early on with my husband to make Christmas less about the presents, and now his parents are going with it too. There’s so much waste involved in having tons of presents under the Christmas tree, and I think it takes away from the meaning of the holiday, whether you celebrate it for your faith or for the time with family.
Hello Heathen! ;)
Thanks for the post.this is one of my favorite subjects of all time. I was raised in a very religious family my self (lds aka mormon) I loved the community, not so much the finer print of the doctorine. ANYWAY, a couple that I know who are also defectors have started having their own church at home on sunday. The basis is that all the world religions are really pointing the same direction. Be thankful, love others, do good, etc, etc. so every sunday they focus on a different spiritual belief, teach about it, talk about it get into the culture (food, practices etc) of it. Some people may look at this religion “buffet” as picking and choosing, which it is, and not like it, but I think it’s a fascinating alternative. Personally the only fatal flaw I see to any religion is requiring you to put your soul in their hands, for example, you sin and you need a pope, priest, bishop, etc to “forgive” you for god. God can speak to you, anyone else in the middle is only interfearing. As for anyone who moves away from you for being non religous, too bad for them, cause really they don’t know there’s a god any more than you don’t know if there’s a god. No body knows, not really. People say they feel it, that’s great, I’ve felt it too, I feel god everyday. Im pretty positive he’s there, but I was also pretty positive I was going to marry this little hottie I knew in 6th grade! felt that too :)
I forgot to mention that their church is just for them and their two kids
I grew up Christian and I will raise my children the same way. I will not force them to be christian because no one can be forced to believe a certain way, no matter what you do. I very much hope they will stay in this same religion however. I cannot understand how anyone can have children and see the wonders of this earth (natural wonders) without believing in a God. I do not say this in a bitter way, you absolutely have a right to believe the way that you do. I want to comment about what Andrea said about needing a pope or priest to forgive you. My religion does not include this. We can turn to a fellow Christian for forgiveness or pray to God whenever the we feel the need. There have been so many times in my life when I felt guilt for something I had done or felt pain for someone else and what they were going through. My faith and religion has brought me so much peace in those times of trial. I pity the person who is unable to turn to God for guidance and comfort.
I do not mean for my comment to sound hurtful or condescending in any way. I don’t think you are a “bad person” because you aren’t religious. I agree that there are non-religious or non-christian people who are more respectful and “good” that many Christians. I have seen it so many times myself. I was only trying to express how I feel. :)
No worries Heidi. :) As for the pity for those unable to turn to God for guidance and comfort. In my case… well, I turn to my family for my strength. I also look within myself for the reserves of strength I know I have there. It is liberating (not sad) to know that I can muddle through just about anything that comes along and be better for it in the end. The bad helps us grow.
I look back at the time I used to pray and talk to God and I realize I was talking to myself… mustering up strength and courage I already had. Its like the way they tell cancer patients to visualize healing. Prayer is visualizing strength, courage, and guidance. It was in YOU all along.
I remember reading a blog the other day and the mom was talking about how she had such beautiful children, and great husband, and a great life, and good money, etc and how God had blessed her. My thought was “Why her?” Why would God bless this lady and her family and totally NOT bless other families. It makes no sense to me.
you rock! hope you’ll post more like this – and offer a balance to the predominantly Xn mommy blogs.
would love more book recs on the subject
Tiffany! Kudos, hugs and thanks for taking on this topic! I am a non-believer in god myself and since I live in a very conservative part of the country where there are more houses of worship than fast food restaurants, I have had to keep that little personal tidbit to myself.
My parents were both raised Christian and throughout my childhood we would occasionally attend a Christmas Eve or Easter sunrise service and we’d say grace before our Thanksgiving meal but that was what passed for “religion” in our home. We were never told we’d go to hell if we were bad or didn’t believe in God, but we did hear that just about any relative, friend, or pet that had died “was now in heaven”. I sang in a church choir as a teenager, I attended services with friends at different churches over the years but never bought any of the stories that were told.
I am a good person. I am kind to others, I do charitable work, I give money to charitable organizations, I am very green and therefore loving and respectful of the planet, I would never harm another person intentionally – I live a good life, all without any belief in a supreme being who ultimately controls my destiny.
Yes, I am certainly in awe of the fact that we are here at all… what tremendous odds that, out of the countless suns and planets, over countless billions of years, we end up having life, consciousness, and the opportunity to experience this incredible slice of the universe!!! Is it a miracle? I suppose you could call it that. Is it a miracle of God’s creation? I don’t buy it.
As I have gotten older, and I am swiftly approaching my first half century celebration, I have often wondered why humanity NEEDS religion at all. I have my own theories, but someone much more gifted in understanding human nature and psychology will need to answer that question. I can understand that ancient societies needed some way to control the masses and that “religion” answered that need. Unfortunately for the human race, religion has played the largest role in most of the hate, war and inhumanity that humans have perpetrated on one another “all in the name of God!” And you’re certainly right to ask, how or why would a father allow his children to torture and murder each other in his name? When I think of all the bad that goes on in the world – the hate, the greed, the cruelty, the lies, the we’re-going-to-be-saved-and-you’re-not, the illnesses, the sick and dying babies, the lack of respect for the planet…. I ask how and why WOULD a father allow his children to act this way or better yet, if he’s created them in his own image and pre-ordains how they will live out their lives and THIS IS HOW IT’S GOING DOWN how COULD anyone love and follow such a mean being, let alone want to spend eternity worshipping him in heaven?
If that mean person, who can do anything and controls everything, allows all this bad stuff to happen to innocent people every day, without any proof whatsoever of his existence, what exactly is the point to “believing” anyway?
I realize that most humans have a NEED for religion. I hope, that as the world’s civilizations progress in knowledge and intelligence, we can come to teach all people that morality and ethics come from the choices within ourselves not from some supernatural being who controls our fate. That “goodness to all of mankind and the planet” can become our universal religion. It is such a big thing to hope for. To survive as a species we will need to come together and sadly most religions of the world preach the opposite.
Well, that’s my brief rant on religion.
I too sent my daughter to a Christian pre-school. Since we live in such a heavily religious area, she’s gonna need the basic stories in her bank of knowledge. When the time comes, we’ll tackle the realities of religion, how it was cooked up by power-hungry people, we’ll explore the world’s religions, how they’ve been morphed together and how they have shaped our history and at some point on that journey she too will discover how to live a good life without that NEED for a supreme being.
That said, I decorate my home from December 1st through early January with my darling collection of vintage santas and reindeer. I celebrate with joy the Winter Solstice and the company of friends and family. I am thankful for all that I have and all those that I love and for the beauty and goodness that does happen every day. I think we all need celebration in our lives and “the return of the sun” has been a long-time favorite for earth-dwellers :-)
I’m going to check out the books recommended in this thread and wish you the very best in raising your little Free Thinkers. You ARE a very good person – the world needs many more just like you!
Thanks for your post. I am a Christian liberal (I actually think that more Christians would be liberal if they really thought about it, social programs feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked, etc.). I think it is great that you are teaching your kids about different religions. Although I will raise mine Christian I want them to have perspective. You can really get lost when you get hurt by your religion, as I have been. I think it would have helped me to know there were other ways to see things.
That is me too Sarah. Politcally I am VERY liberal but in my own lifestyle choices I am conservative.
Interesting post. I’m somewhat in the same boat. I grew up in the Arkansas Bible Belt. We didn’t go to church when I was growing up b/c my folks wanted us to decide on our own. I do remember going to church with friends…and can honestly say I didn’t ever love it & it was more of a social game than anything. Later, I made the mistake of marrying someone (yes, I was young & stupid) that was Seventh Day Adventist. I’m not knocking the religion but it was not for me. My husband at the time got more & more fanatical about what I could & couldn’t do…and I had already made many changes. Church members were score keeping, etc. & it was just a world full of hypocrisy. I realized I couldn’t have childrent with this idiot or his faith & left. So although it was also the guy that was crazy…the religion seemed to bring it on more. With that & my previous experiences with church…I’ve been really turned off.
I consider myself a very conservative liberal. I moved up to the Seattle area & this is my home…it feels good. There is just so much more diversity & acceptance. I’ve met so many wonderful people & some have opened my eyes to different beliefs. I’ve always thought there is a huge difference b/w being religious & being spiritual. I’ve talked to God many times but now not so much. I believe in a high power but I’m more unsure these days. I don’t like how religion judges so much. And although I’m personally conservative, I feel very liberal in politics. How on earth can we not be with so many shades of gray…with so many people & different beliefs, circumstances, sexual orientation, etc.
I want to be a free thinker. I want to be open minded & learn about other cultures/religions & I want the same for my children. I’m now remarried to a great guy & we have two young boys. It’s odd b/c my DH is from Utah (not mormon) and is very conservative himself. He didn’t grow up with any religion. So, right now I’m not sure what we’re going to do…the same as you I suppose. However, I don’t have a problem with Christmas & Easter. I haven’t delved into the meaning of it with my kids & not sure what I’ll do. My guys are small enough still that it’s just fun…and that’s ok with me. I do want to start incorporating some more “giving” at those times & teach that.
Oh gosh, what rambles. Hope some of that makes sense. I appreciate your blog. I don’t get a chance to read it everyday but always like visiting. : ) You’re good mommy. Thanks for the book recco.
Not religion but have you checked out “What the World Eats” by Faith D’Aluisio? Great book.
Take care…
Thank you for posting this! Growing up, my parents wanted to raise free thinkers out of my sisters and I. I had always felt lost because I didn’t know much about religion and spirituality. I think the part my parents missed was adding all types of religion and ideas into the mix. They eliminated religion only. However, their hope was that if we found religion, it was on our own and it was what we wanted to believe in.
I have a five month old son, and I have been questioning what to do when it comes to faith and spirituality. I am a spiritual person, but not a religious person, if that makes sense. Everyday, I become more aware of life, myself, the world, energy, power, etc. I believe in a lot of things and basically, my spirituality is closest to Buddhism.
I want my son to believe in what he wants. I am a single mother and my son’s father’s side is very traditional Christians. Every visit they have had with my son, they have questioned my raising ability because I am no religion nor am I teaching my son about Jesus.
Thank you for the book suggestions. I hope to raise a compassionate, free thinking son.
I could not agree with you more. I was raised Catholic and questioned everything. I knew there had to be something more out there, luckily my parents did not fight me on this, they knew it was useless. I have explored many various belief systems, I do not really like to use the word religion, and I have found many similarities between them. I believe in raising your children by exposing them to all sorts of things so they will be educated and informed adults. I have 3 children the oldest is 15 and this is how he was raised and he seems to be turning out just fine.
Thanks for your post
Free thinking is what our country needs!!!!!
Like the poster Wendy, our family also attends a UU (Unitarian Universalist) church – they teach all religions at the kid’s religious education classes. Tolerance for all is emphasized. Love it!
Okay, I really will have to visit this UU church and see what everyone is raving about. The classes for kids sound amazing.
Before I even scrolled down I knew this post would have a lot of comments. I haven’t read them all yet, but I will. I have been reading your blog for a couple of years and I really like it.
I am a Christian, but I choose my friends (and the blogs I read) by the content of their character not solely because they ascribe to the same religious belief that I do. I find that absurd and extremely narrow minded that someone would. What are they afraid of? Agnostic cooties are somehow going to be transmitted via air or Internet waves? That is certainly not the lesson that Jesus Christ taught. He was all about love, mercy and grace.
I find the same sort of narrow mindedness when I tell people I am Liberal, yet Christian. It is not the oxymoron that some seem to think it is. Oh, well. You know what it is their loss if they don’t want to read your blog any more or get to know you.
Peace,
Kim
I second (or third, or fourth or whatever we’re on now!) the UU church. They almost aren’t even a church at all since they don’t have one set of beliefs that they adhere to. They help kids to develop their own beliefs. If the Jewish faith is working for you, but you also want to meditate to form a relationship with a goddess of your choice…that’s just fine! I love that you don’t have to “pick one” religion. Students are encouraged to take what they like, and leave what they don’t from any and all faiths.
I don’t have kids yet, but will most definitely be sending them to UU classes someday!
I have really enjoyed reading these comments. I’d like to add this challenge to the pot…either Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of man, or he did not. That is the bottom line. Either Allah is god or he is not. When you are deciding which religion to go for, consider this…there can only be ONE supreme being. If I believe that Jesus Christ reigns supreme and you believe that Buddha is god, one of us is WRONG. We can’t both be right. It’s not relative. It either is or it isn’t. This is also not narrow mindedness, it’s truth. Either this blog is written by a woman, or it isn’t. Just because we can’t see your face doesn’t change your gender and the fact that you are writing this post. Tiffany, you either are or are not a woman. Period. God is either God or He is not. Period. It doesn’t change just because we can’t see Him.
That said, look around you. It’s easy to see that somehow all of this natural world got here. If you do any research into any living being you must come to that conclusion- we are no accident.
I realize that I am rationalizing and thinking logically here, but I will also say that believing in God may require rationale. Afterall, why would one choose to believe in a supreme being that is on their same level intellectually? Oops! There I go thinking logically again!! Don’t you think God is going to be a little bit more powerful, thoughtful, creative, and wonderful than we are? I would not serve a supreme being that I could figure out and think just like.
One more thing, in regards to your response about turning inward vs. praying because that’s what you were doing anyway…I think that’s an awesome rebuttal. Awesome in the way that it again it points to God- the God of the Bible. God created amazing and thought provoking beings that are capable of helping themselves and correcting themselves. Yes, He is sovereign over all things, but He also created things to work a certain way so that He is not required to micromanage every little thing. For instance, God created an amazing muscle in our bodies that pumps blood, allowing us to live and breathe. God is not sitting on his throne telling each one of our hearts when to beat and how to beat…no, he created a brain that helps with that, lungs that aid in the process, and electric pulses, among other tiny intricate details, that come together and cause the heart to pump. He thought of everything!
So, figure it out for yourself, or pray to an almighty God…either way, He gets the glory because He created you to be the amazing woman that you are. Full of thought and strength.
And I personally LOVE your blog and would not quit reading due to belief differences.
Angie, I have no issue with any of your logic. But it is a type of bare bones logic that makes religion antithetical to belief in God. I would submit that it is easy to believe in God just by looking at nature, our bodies, the universe, etc. But then religion steps in and tells us that despite the fact that we know nothing of God or his purpose for us we have to follow certain rules to be acceptable to him or he will torture us in hellfire for all eternity. It is kind of like having a child and leaving them at birth but then setting up a large chain group to send messages to them that if they they don’t live as you desire you will torture them.They may never hear the message just right and people in that chain group added bits and pieces along the way. That in itself is torture and makes it hard to believe God would do such a thing.
And of course we have hundreds of different ideas on who God is and what he wants and doesn’t want.
Even if I believe there MUST be a God it is NOT logical to conclude that he has any plans or purpose for me. If God created the universe then SURELY he could get a message to his offspring LOUD and abundantly clear of what he expects of us. So many people search and search and yet never find peace.
Tiffany, I understand what you are saying about logic, and I have read that you believe the Bible is just man-made and not the Word of God as it, in itself, claims to be. So, surpassing the idea that “the Bible was written by men therefore is only of man and could not possibly be deemed perfect”, I submit that God is much broader than even His written word, for example. So big, in fact, that he could call YOU His child without even using people, a chain, a book, a television, or even a sign to get His message to you- what a weak God if he couldn’t!! God doesn’t need people, and to prove that, your conscious can testify to your sin. The spirit within you knows what is right and wrong…God made us that way. In addition, it doesn’t take religious acts or obeying any rules to be considered God’s child- that is a huge misunderstanding. Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than your children going to a friend’s house makes them children of their friend’s parents. Likewise, your own children didn’t EARN a place in your household and they couldn’t lose that place. We are simply called to believe. Jesus did the rest…so that we wouldn’t have to. The responsibility comes only after believing, and that responsibility becomes a natural response to something so life-changing that you couldn’t help but do things in obedience to the Savior of your soul!
Well put Angie! And Tiffany, I just wanted to say that my faith does not require me to do anything but seek the forgiveness of my sins. Of course, that doesn’t mean that I should intentionally do wrong, but if I truly believe that those faults and wrongdoings are forgiven then that is what truly matters in order to spend eternity in heaven.
These comments have become an interesting discussion…
http://www.notreligion.com
I’m so sorry to hear Christians have not behaved in a Christian manner towards you and your family. I am a Catholic Christian and happen to be a youth minister. I am an independent politically, but enjoy the perspectives of liberals and conservatives. I also happen to have a Muslim father. I was raised a Catholic, but also to respect and love all people of good will, which is how Pope John Paul II addressed his audiences. Please know that not all Christians are intolerant, just as all Muslims are not terrorists. I’m glad to hear you are still open to faith generally. Remember that just because a teacher is bad doesn’t mean the subject is lacking in value!
Oh and FYI…my family and I do not believe in celebrating Christmas and Easter with presents the “American” way. We think that as a culture its become seriously materialistic and way different from the Christian message. As a family we get together and eat, play games, and listen to carols and good Christmas smells. All gifts have to be homemade or benefitting someone else (ex: heifer project)… if we do give anything out. Its become much more memorable and enjoyable for all involved. God bless you and your family and on behalf of all those whom have not been very Christian in behavior I apologize. I’m sorry for any pain that has caused you and your family. Actually it really makes me angry for you, gives people like me and what I do a bad name.
Thank you so much for the post and book recommendations. In the past year, I have become an ecletic pagan in practice. I have alot to learn, but I have been drawn to this form of spirtuality for over 10 years now. I have finally taken the plunge.
It is so hard to go against the grain of what is considered normal and acceptable though. I have told some friends who really do not seems to feel one way or another about it. I have ont told my family. Even as a child some of my family thought that I was less than Christainly (s o to speak).
My husband is a spiritual person and that about defines as far as he has gone with it. I am enjoying the pagan path as it allows for free thinking and you will rarely meet two pagans with the same beliefs. it is very peaceful and loving in both humanity and nature. If you are interested in learning more, I am currently reading The Real Witches’ Handbook: A Complete Introduction to the Craft by Kate West. It is written in easy to understand language and gives practical advice on all the Sabbats. It is amazing that The Wheel of the Year is based on the seasons and agriculture, yet these blessed days just happen to be only a day or so off from the Christain calendar of holy days.
Anyways, as for my children I am going to try to instill the strong character traits as well as a sense of responsiblity for their own actions. My oldest now 7 and I am consideering really having him begin to practice yoga and meditation with me. he is having some trouble in school and I am hoping that by having him focuse on himself and his choices that we will be able to influence his choices for the better.
All of this is part of my pagan practice, there is no need for him to know what everything he is doing is called. He will be able to continue these things as he grows or he will be able to choose another path. I will just work as a guide for his journey.
Thanks again for the post. It has been very enlightening as this is somehting I am delaing with in my own life as we speak.
From the sounds of it (if I’m getting from your post what you intended), the church has let you down. Many of the Christian people you’ve known growing up, or after leaving the church have let you down. Am I on the right track? And it’s the people of the “religion” that “turned” you from God and not God Himself.
Is this correct? If so, I don’t blame you for your feelings and your beliefs. I’m Christian. I’m sure you know that ;) I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, I believe in Heaven and Hell, and I have a personal relationship with God.
I’ve also been hurt and let down by many Christians and churches in my life. And I suspect I will be again. Too many Christians come across as judgmental and hide behind quotes from the Bible instead of really understanding what the Bible says, and why it is they feel the way they feel.
Not only that, but SO many Christians forget what Jesus was on earth and is in Heaven. He is love and grace and light. He accepted everyone. He wasn’t judgmental. Did He turn His back on anyone who needed healing? No.
If we Christians lived our lives more like Christ there would be more and more people coming to Christianity and not straying from it. There’d be more good in the world, more love, more peace.
It hurts my heart to think of how many people have been turned away from God by other people. Well meaning or not, people are often the reason why others get hurt or upset or angry at God. Not God Himself.
I’m not saying any of this holds true with you. Your beliefs may have a ton more to do with other things than what other Christians have done, or haven’t done to you in your life… but I know from personal experience, and from loved ones in my life, what I say holds true for me/them.
I’m impressed that even though you choose not to follow God/Jesus any longer you’re allowing your children to experience Christianity. And not only go to a school, but pray at home and speak about Jesus/God. We may not agree on a lot of things – but I still love you as a person and think you have a really open and caring spirit for your children and for others.
Nell
And I have to address the person who emailed you. And likely many others who will/have, or think in that persons same way.
Is that what Jesus would do? Think about it. Hard and long and deeply.
Would Jesus ever turn His back on us because we turned it on Him? No. He’ll never forsake us or leave us.
Aren’t we His hands and feet and body and mouth and heart here on earth? Yes. If we’re true Christians then that is what we believe.
So we need to act like it. And sending Tiffany an email saying you’ll never read her blog again because of her beliefs is going completely againts what Jesus would do.
Again, I know you don’t believe in Jesus any more (Tiffany), but I’m speaking to all those who do and read your blog. Myself included.
Our first instinct isn’t always the right one. Before you say something, email someone, do something… think about it, pray about it, go to God’s word….use common sense.
We’re direct ambassadors for Christ and we need to, MUST, represent Him correctly.
Tiffany, I don’t often come back to blogs to read comments… so if you want to reply to me personally about these comments I’ve made I’m always open for email.
Nell
I really appreciate this post. I try to check out your blog when I get time, and I am glad I tuned in today, It is wonderful that you are raising your children to be free thinkers. We need more of those in this world. So many people use their religion as a shield to hide behind and do not know how to think for themselves. I am interested in those books you mentioned as well, as I am raising my daughter to be a free thinker as well.
hi. I just read your post, and I find your issues interesting. I am a blogger, and a mom (mom blogger?) whose blog deals almost exclusively with spirituality. Anyway, since you are reflecting on your whole situation about religion, what to teach your children, etc… it is good to reflect on why you are an agnostic. Is it purely a rebellion against the constrictive approach of your religious background growing up? It is interesting that you are choosing religious schools for your children. Schools impart values and perspective that reflect the institution, beyond the books and curriculum. It may be disillusioning for them at one point to see that the values and perspective on life that are drilled into them through their environment at school will be radically different from those at home. Talking to children about religion is challenging at times. How do you explain free will to a child? Yes, there is so much evil and cruelty in the world on all levels. In a free will system, that is allowed so that lessons can be learned and virtues can be earned. It may seem unfair, but good can not exist without evil – it needs a standard of being. You cant know what good is, or strive to achieve it , if all of the world is programmed to be good. Good has to be something you strive to attain. That is a tough lesson for kids, no doubt.
In answer to your question how do I handle my childrens religious path, I also exposed them to the belief systems of many cultures. Being part of a multicultural community in Europe, they were exposed from a very early age to many denominations of christianity, judaism, islam, buddhism and hinduism. Yes it is possible to be very open to all traditions, to respect them and to accept them, while belonging to one faith. Although our family belongs to a very old Christian tradition, the Orthodox church, I taught the children that every culture has their own historical approach to worshiping God and towards trying to understand Creation. Yes, in the old days religion was constructed to keep the masses of people unaware of many spiritual truths. Todays world however is radically different from the world in which these religions were originated and constructed. Unfortunately many of todays religions still have the mindless tendency to instill fear and mistrust of other faiths and groups, and try to put blinders on the faithful, so that one will not put into practice the famous Christian adage of “seek and ye shall find”. One other thing I taught them is to always remember that God doesnt belong to a religion. The creating force is life, is love. We are all a part of what is created. Any type of system,division, organization and written canon of laws is man made. Whatever is man made can be questioned, discarded, rewritten and reconstructed, over and over again. Creation, on any level, can not be rewritten, it is hardly even understood. Our society will come to a realization that there is a God through science. I say this because no one person on this planet has an answer for the spiritual whys and hows. Just postulation. Science is exposing the work of God to all people – genetics, space, quantum fields…the fact that these areas hold a vast intelligence and are a part of us that holds great mystery is proof beyond measure that these things were created, not randomly or accidentally appearing. Children have to be taught that keeping an open mind is remembering that all religions are just rituals and belief systems that try to address how to approach the Divine. The approach that really counts is in the heart.
Susanna,
It was not rebellion that led me away but rather a realization that whomever God is… he is not what the Christian churches at large teach. Rather is was that exact knowledge… that religion, the Bible, etc, is all man made. The God who created the stars and the human body is a God who could if he wanted to, let me know who he is and what he wanted from me if anything. It seems more logical to me that I don’t need to know and have no use for man made traditions and teachings. I came to that realization and belief on my own and my kids will come to their own conlusions as well.
As for this statement:
“It may be disillusioning for them at one point to see that the values and perspective on life that are drilled into them through their environment at school will be radically different from those at home.”
I am not sure what you mean. I don’t think we live drastically different than a religious family. We may have the same values in fact but different reasons for them. The presepctive may also be different but is the end result all that different… perhaps not.
Tiffany, hi again…dont misunderstand me, when I say that the kids may be disillusioned, I am not at all making any reference to their home life. There is no doubt that they are experiencing values in their home life, that is evident from the fact that you are tending to the children with respect and with responsibility, as reflected by the care that you are taking to nurture the spiritual lives of the children. What I meant by that statement is that I am afraid that by coming from an agnostic household that is free thinking, is not afraid to think outside the box, to question and to explore,- and then being immersed in the rigid structure and belief system of a catholic school, that the extreme differences of the two may cause them to become dissatisfied and disillusioned with the whole “system”. The end result being that their enthusiasm may dampen regarding learning about different faiths. It is not the agnostic beliefs that are responsible, I just feel that they will have to make value judgments from a very young age to either “fit in”and be like the rest of their catholic school community (a typical pressure felt by the young) or to stand up against what is expected from them to believe in and to support the belief system that they are being nurtured in at home. I must say that you are doing a great job as a mom in trying to expose them from young to so much. My whole take on this is that kids need a solid belief system from young, and if agnosticism is the belief foundation of the family thats fine, but it may be disillusioning for them to have to be forced to defend it in their catholic school environment. Its one thing for an agnostic to learn about catholicism, and another thing to have to spend the better part of the week in that strict environment, if it expects them to see things differently from their parents. because, bottom line, it is what you and your husband teach your children that will serve as foundations for them and it would be a shame to have your perspective countered in their minds by a school system that they will have to adhere to for a big chunk of their life. I agree that the end result may not be different, but why make the road bumpy?
Tiffany, what you just wrote makes sense…my experience of catholic school were some very rigid and strict convent schools here on the other side of the pond. the children were taught to uphold and practice all they were taught…not much tolerance for the more liberal of the community….the set up of your school however is quite different from what I have experienced here, and it sounds very good…I see your point and agree with you….i had a different definition of catholic school in mind…blame it on culture lag….anyway…I am sure that your children will find their path spiritually, and you are making the right decisions with the steps you’ve taken…
Yes, I see what you are saying. I doubt I would ever put them in a strict religious school situation. So far we have used a Christian school that was more an immersion school then a strict faith based school. They welcomed Christians and non Christians alike.
Interestingly though when I decided against sending one of my kids to a Catholic school I got many comments on this blog from people who went to Catholics schools but were not Catholic themselves. They insisted that many of the private religious schools do not actively push their faith on kids so much as they are a source of high quality education and a haven for parents of faith who do not want their kids in public schools. I was quite surprised that so many non-religious people had Cathoilic school educations and praised it so highly. Apparently they did not find it hard to cope and they didn’t have trouble making friends either. Many also stated that religious teaching occurred in an optional class that many, even the Catholics, did not particpate in.
Oh my goodness, my mind is reeling from all the comments! It’s hard to know where I should start (or if I should comment at all).
I am a Christian, raised in a deeply spiritual family, as part of the Lutheran Church. When I went away to college, I hit a huge rebellion stage in my life– I actually was thrown out of school because of drinking/not going to class. At that time, I didn’t really question what I had been taught about God; I simply became inactive in my faith. I didn’t really try to change my faith until I met my husband, a man raised in a very “anti-religion” family. I searched far and wide for a church that would fit my increasingly liberal views (“why does any religion have to be right– aren’t all loving religions based on the same loving God? That type of thing). I looked into the UU church, Episcopal church, Liberal Catholic church and, for awhile, considered myself a “Christian Witch.” I finally settled on a Congregational church that emphasized art/music as spiritual expression, as well as stewardship for the earth and advocating for the homeless.
I still attend this church because I appreciate the community (my daughter also attends Sunday School there), but it is not what makes me Christian. I can’t even remember what got me searching for Christ, but I started watching Christian programming on t.v. and dedicated myself to reading my Bible everyday. And there he was! Really accepting Christ as the savior of the world is a hard thing to describe. As a previous poster said, it truly is a heart change. You know how a person can’t really understand that awe-inspiring feeling of parenthood until you actually became a parent? Well it’s like that.
As for not knowing God’s plan for us- it’s there, it’s just a matter of figuring out how to listen! After I truly opened myself up to reading the Bible and wanting to understand it, I found a new perspective opening up to me– the meaning of verses that I previously found challenging suddenly became clear. I also started noticing prayers being answered– too many for mere coincidence.
Looking at the state of the world, I can understand wanting to be mad at God. It’s hard to be in a state of free will! But I must believe that God did not cause our problems– we cause them with hate and jealousy and selfishness and a never ending list of human-created flaws. Thankfully, I believe God did intend to save us from ourselves. Jesus was sent to bring RADICAL change to a suffering world– During his time on earth, Jesus was a liberal (he cared deeply for the plight of the poor) and a feminist (he actually talked with women and cared about their opinions). His teachings regarding love, peace and justice are what brought on his death.
Anyway, I feel I’ve rambled too long. As far as reading suggestions, I’m wondering if you have read The Shack– it has some interesting ideas. As for what a Christian “should” be, you might want to check out David Platt’s Radical series: http://www.vimeo.com/5833626
Finally, I just finished watching A Case for Christ, I’d love to discuss it– I’m interested in what others have to say about it. Feel free to email me.
I’ve been reading your blog for a few weeks now, but I am subscribing to your blog based on this entry. I, too, am raising free-thinkers. It’s nice to find people who understand the importance of this in the 21st century.
Hi Tiffany,
I am a practicing Orthodox Muslim and plan on raising my children as such. I loved reading that your children were exposed to other Muslim kids at school because of how were are often portrayed in the media, it’s nice to hear that they get to connect with Muslims on a real level.
Check out this website if you or your kids have any questions about Islam: http://www.whyislam.org
Thanks for the great blog post,
Angie
(aka Um Sumayyah, which is arabic for Sumayyah’s Mommy :) )
Thank you so much for the book recommendation. I just ordered it from the library. I struggle with this as well. Growing up I was pretty much forced to go to church and watch how everybody tried to one-up the other in terms of cars, dress, how pious they were, and then they’d beat each other out the door when church was done. A lot of the “churchy” kids at school were some of the meannest. So after high school I stopped going to church and haven’t been back. BUT I do want to baptise my children (and will do them together when my newest is born), they MAY be attending a Catholic school (only because my choices on schools here are extremely limited, and it’s a very nice school), and I do want them exposed to religion so they understand the basic principles, etc, from a learning point of view, not necessarily a faith point of view.
Wow! so many comments! I just wanted to say thanks for your blog. I’ve learned so much & hope to continue to learn & be encouraged in my interpretation of life. I, like many other readers, am a Christian. I live in the Bible belt as well, so this has been part of my life all of my life. I too am sorry that Christians have given God a bad rap. I attend a non-denom church that isn’t judgmental, critical, uncaring, unforgiving, etc. I grew up with “Christians” being some of the most aweful people who made me feel sorry for being just me. I’ve learned at the church I attend that this is NOT what God intended for “His” followers to act like, AT ALL. But we are all human. That’s where the hypocrasy comes in. We don’t always make the best decisions because we are not perfect. But while we have this life, we have the opportunity to right our wrongs. I don’t have all the answers about why would a loving God allow such heartache here on earth. The Bible does say that His thoughts & ways are higher than ours. I, personally, interpret that to mean to me that I couldn’t possibly understand all of the “whys” in life, because I’m small in His hand. I’m finite & He’s infinite. I’m limited & He’s limitless. Jesus said the 2 greatest commandments were to love God with all your heart & love your neighbor as yourself. There are some people who don’t love themselves very well because of hurt & they tend to treat others out of that hurt. And as humans, we also tend to over-analize sometimes. I know I do! :) I over-complicate things. And sometimes there’s just not an explanation. Life happens :) I guess I’m encouraging you to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. People aren’t perfect & God isn’t always explainable. Just don’t give up on Him. AND YES, I, A CHRISTIAN, WILL CONTINUE TO READ YOUR BLOGS! LOL!! We have a common goal=to make the world better, because we were here :) I love you Tiffany & your sweet family! You are a phenominal woman! I wish you peace & the fulfillment of your heart’s desires. Blessings :)
I also wanted to 2nd the mention of THE SHACK. I LOVE this book! It really gave me a picture of what a non-judgemental God is like. Who we are really is enough. We don’t have to live up to someone else’s interpretation of OUR life!
You know what is so funny? Just yesterday I discovered “Raising Free Thinkers, A Practical Guide for Parents Beyond Belief” I also visited their website! I was searching, as I often do, for answers as well. Unfortunately, I do not have time right this second to read all of your responses, but I cannot wait to come home and read all of them!!!
I read your blog here and there. But I will tell you that I will read it even more now that I know that you and I have even more in common.
I have had the spiritual talk with my children, my oldest is 12 and he loves the idea that he gets to chose what to believe, unfortunately, I fear that I have also turned him against hard-core Christians, in the process. He feels very much like I did at his age, how do you chose, and why do you have to pin in down to one religion? I consider myself very spiritual. I dip into a little Buddhism here and there as well as some pagan traditions throughout the year. I just feel there are so many wonderful paths to chose, why can’t we just pick and chose which traditions work for our own family?
I have sooooooooo much more to say on this topic, but it will have to wait until after I pick up the kiddos!
Thank you for having the guts to post such a powerful subject. I always love to hear from other “non-relious” people.
I could’ve written this blog myself, in so many ways! I, too, feel that my kids should be exposed to different religions and make their own choice. It’s a very personal choice–either the rules/dogma/beliefs work for you or they don’t.
I, myself, am very spiritual, and my beliefs are a cross between Paganism/Gnosticism or something–labeling is unimportant. My son goes to a Christian preschool (which shocks everyone who knows me) b/c i know many others who love that school, and i like that he’s exposed daily to some sort of spirituality. For me, personally, spirituality–namely the feeling that we’re all here for a reason, our spirits will live on, we’re surrounded by spiritual helpers, etc.–is important to my happiness, so that’s the part i instill in my kids. No rules, no hell. Just angels and guardians and relatives who’ve passed on and the idea that we’ll all be together again, but we have important, fun things to do here.
I have to mention, too, that i really feel sorry for anyone who has to shut anyone out based on religious beliefs. We’re all in this crazy life together–we have to take care of each other. Alienation should never be the intention of any religion.
I too could have written this blog and half of these comments myself. Grew up in a huuuuge church in Orange County (super materialistic), my mom was in the choir, uncle was the preacher, etc. etc.
We were sooo involved in the church we we there at least three days a week. I remember one Sunday morning, in 7th grade, the junior high preacher was doin his thing up there and mentions that anyone outside this one belief was going to hell. He was used to my occasional hand raise (I was the only one that would do this-we were really close so he didn’t mind), but my arm shot up sooo fast this time. “Yes Jody?”, he asked. “So let me get this straight, my best friend is going to hell because she is Muslim? And what about monks in Tibet who sit in meditation all day long…celibate…vegitarian…etc…more pure than all of us…they are going to hell?” As he started to tell me how god shows himself to everyone at least one in their life and all sinners who refuse him..yaddah yaddah, I was already halfway out of the room. That was that last time I went. Which was a huge deal considering my families involvement at the time, but I absolutely saw it so clearly. I am not about hate or intolerance. Humans are what screws up religion. I am down with Jesus. More down than most Christians could ever be. He was the man. Like some of you mentioned, he was a kind hearted, compassionate, super liberal guy. Very rebellious with tradition…a true wondering monk. Love is what he taught. It’s a shame that so much intolerance gets played out in his name.
Anyway, thank you for going there with this topic. I have both a 13 year old son and a 16 month old son. Huge gap. I celebrate Christmas. Mostly because those memories are some of my personal favorites from my childhood. The celebration of family and togetherness is timeless and ancient. I tend to use ever excuse I can to host warm fuzzy family/friend gatherings.
We also celebrate each solstice and equinox, Beltaine, Hanukkah (I ususally have a friend or two come and show us how to light the menora and sing songs and play dradles). We even did Kwanza a couple years. We take part in the festivities on Easter-egg painting..the hunt…big beatiful dinner. The funnest part of easter for me is pointing out what the symboligy on these practices means. Easter is the craziest Pagan holiday there is. It makes me laugh even now. Eggs, bunnys…it is a huge fertility celebration.
Okay, I could go on for pages…
Thank you. I love your blog.
In’Lekesh
Im a late commentor but I just wanted to let you know how ridiculous it is that people stop reading just because of one difference you have with them (like being Christian…or that person who was upset about your Credo Mobile blog). Difference is what makes the world so interesting! I too consider myself agnostic, and I love studying religion from an anthropological viewpoint (two semesters so far in college, love it!). But Id love to have a community to be connected with in my new town, so Ive scoped out my local Unitarian Universalist congregation b/c they talk about many faiths, have speakers come from other churches/temples/etc to talk, and for the most part their ‘sermons’ are about just being a good person. And they care about the environment, and do a lot of volunteer work. To me, that sounds perfect! Im an Air Force wife and that is very awkward for me as a liberal ‘free-thinker’, I just dont fit in, so I need an outlet of my own to express myself! I have so much respect for you being openminded and letting your children see for themselves what feels right. Every time I read your blog I love it more and more!
I am a Christian, and I love your blog. Actually, I refer people to it all of the time I love it that much. Quite honestly, it doesn’t matter to me what religion you do or do not belong to, but I also don’t believe that Christians have cornered the market on morality, love, charity, or any other worthy cause. For a long time, I was a loaner– trying to find the “right fit” for me and my otherwise liberal ideas when my husband asked me to try a Disciples of Christ church that he had attended in college. It’s been a good fit—a tolerant denomination even when in disagreement..
As for our son, he obviously will know about Jesus and the religion of his parents, but we have no intent to force him in to Christianity, and as he gets a bit older (he’s just about three now), we will expose him to different religions. If he wants to try out a church, we will do so. If he wants to bypass church, that is ok too. I think, if anything, we try hard to expose him to a variety already, including sending him to a non-Christian, non-Religious private school. His path is his own to forge, not for me to force.
As for those who unsubscribe, etc– I think they have forgotten the work and words of Jesus.
hi i wonder if that person refuses to shop in nonchristian shops or watches tv programmes written by non christian producers? It’s so deeply sad and disturbing.we are all God’s children and he calls us to him.It’s so sad also that within different congregations members can perpetuate their own doctrines far from our Heavenly Father’s way of thinking.As one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for 35 years i was taught that you have to learn what all religions are about otherwise how can we know what that religion preaches and be able to comment on it in a biblical way (test and see whether all these teachings originate with God.)Our heavenly father loves all his children and wants only the best for them. He wants us to come to Him and learn about Him no matter what religion we are so as we can grow in love for Him. what father doesn’t want to love and care for his children and to be loved by them? with an attitude such as this woman’s how can she be spiritually content condemning in such a way a child whom Almighty God hasn’t condemned or rejected.I enjoy your homely blog take care and may our Heavenly Father help you find your way . a wee scottish grannyxxx
As far as holidays go, you can basically make up your own if you want. My husband is an athiest and I am agnostic, and even though we don’t have kids, we are going to start trying as soon as we are financially able, so we are trying to figure out how we would want to raise our children.
We don’t want to celebrate easter or christmas because these days they are based on religious ideas. Also, my husband is from Holland, and unless you are religious, you really only celebrate the holiday Sinterklaas, which is a few weeks before Christmas. We are thinking that our household will celebrate a time based on love, giving, togetherness, and tradition in between those two times, and that we can just celebrate the others with the extended family, but not actually have them in our household.
Similarly, we will not be bringing up our children in any religious way. We will start teaching them when they start asking questions, or if they don’t, we’ll start teaching them at about age nine. It really depends on the individual child and when they think they’re ready. We recognize that children and teens need to discover themselves through spiritual exploration, just as we both did when we were younger, and that they will come to their own conclusions. All we want to do is give them the tools to seek and process informations so that they can come to their own conclusions instead of simply accepting what others, or even we, tell them is true.